Following on from where I left off, 27-37 mins Im mostly skipping over because I don’t want to hear/read again. She continues to justify her choice to include the SA… the hosts asking her if she’s worried this will be the only thing talked about from the book (they make comparison to Lena Dunham’s book) & CC responds “you know I was more worried about it before those major publications like vogue and New Yorker & Washington Post had come out with their reviews and really so firmly sided with me.”
[wtf how has it gone from “didn’t mention their opinions on” to “firmly sided with” in a few minutes of interview??? She really is constructing her truth out of thin air]
She also repeats the idea that interpreting the way she talks about Nat's body in the book as negative is just internalised fatphobia. Of all the spiels she's been repeating lately, this is the most transparently disingenuous.
The hosts asks “I was just curious like now that you've written your own memoir do you feel there's a difference between, you know, what you were doing online chronicling your life and the actual book” … then CC talks for what feels like forever & it was not interesting or succinct or easy to edit the transcript (she just keeps interrupting her own thoughts with tangents into other thoughts with no fully realised sentences).
CC: “I guess I always want to be a famous memoirist but it's not even really that, it's something… it’s more performance arty, it's more like theatre of the self and of the online age. There's just no language for it yet but I do hope I live to see the same like etymological revolution happen that has happened with the language and that sort of ideological scaffolding around influencers and influencer marketing.”
CC: “One of the reasons I never did paid promotions, well actually in my whole life, I did one. I think it was a 3 slide Instagram story with Amazon about an anime TV show about a very mentally ill girl & her father because it pulled at my heartstrings and also Amazon threw like $10k at me to post like three Instagram story slides and I felt like I could do it ethically because I could give them real data on my story views whereas like my Instagram will always have that inflated 40,000 fake followers that I bought so I feel really strange like selling grid…. I just never thought it would be right but anyways I did that one thing once but I generally say that I've never done sponsored posts and it's true, like on my grid, like the different managers and agents I've had over the years really tried to be like ‘no you're an influencer. You should do this to make money.’ I'm like, I'm not, like I am just building a fan base for free on Instagram so that I can sell books, like I'm a writer, and I just think it's back to the whole idea of like failure of language to like keep up with like the advancements of the digital creator economy.”
Host: “do you feel like you're ready to retire the character of Caroline Calloway?” then CC says she tried to front load the book with references of the character of CC then peter them out throughout the book and have them totally stop by the end, but she doesn’t think she did this successfully. But “All the feedback from reporters have been very helpful. Trust me it is number one on my to do list, number one to fix for AWWL, I'm going to elucidate that relationship between character and self, because it just it wasn't a priority in 158 pages but if I'm working with 300 plus pages I can and absolutely will do more with that.” Her response to this question is actually nearly six minutes long but this is the crux of it.
Host: “Hannah’s gunna be Public Enemy #1 on smolbeansnark tomorrow” (for calling CC an accomplished writer). CC: “trust me, don't worry about the smolbeansnark people and you guys should not read it and I say this as someone who…. when I tell you I was terrorised by this Reddit like truly, like three to five years, for my life like I like lived in fear of them as if like they were just like my mercurial and tyrannical overlords like I felt like I lived only at their mercy and something that really helps me process just the concept of their existence & their constant commentary on my mental health and every typo & every outfit & every pound I gained or don't gain or nudes on only fans - I think they made a rule against body shaming but they literally had a category on the Reddit encouraging people to repost my only fans nudes for free. It’s so toxic but what really helped me with it was I did this documentary with Vice I don't know if you guys ever saw it. It’s really short it's just like 20 minutes on YouTube” [hosts say they have seen it] “we spent like almost a week filming it and three days in particular we spent just doing burner phone stuff like 9 to 5, three days straight, I think I talked to like 300 people”…”so I spent three days talking to them sun up to sun down” the next part was not transcribed well but she says the same thing as she has said previously. She thought ppl would be sycophantic or angry but “all but 298 of these 300 people just wanted to talk about themselves and their problems in their lives and they were not interested in me at all they really wanted to tell me about like who they were and what was going on in their lives and it really helped me realise that it's not about me because it's really just about them being lonely and wanting community”…” It honestly just brought me so much peace. So that is all I have to say to you if you are worried about it” One of the hosts laughs and says “oh we’re not worried we’re just anticipating”
Host: “I was just curious if you think there's something about being like an early adopter of social media that sets you up for a certain level of criticism that others might later be praised for”
(this para is super boring & long but it's here so Im keeping it in lol) CC: “Yeah no I don’t think they would be praised for it now. I think the reason that I'm not praised for buying followers or buying ads is because those things took on different meanings. To buy instagram followers today is like it is to buy into a currency that can be cashed in for literal cash but also free vacations, cool handbags, clouty friends, like it’s a really great tool to scam, but like before the word - this isn't just like 2014 before the word influencer existed - but when I bought followers in 2013, this was less than two years after Instagram had been invented, it was still an app that only like urban coastal teens had and like I really did it just to see the K on my username and to just like LARP fame, like I just wanted to cosplay in my own personal time when I opened my own media accounts like being a famous author and like I I say this in the book but like I truly sound like a old person being like ‘soda pop used to cost a nickel’ like it truly cost me like $4.99 to buy those 40K followers and then on top of that when I took out ads for myself I was paying $50 for a 10 ad package that's $5 a sponsored post on accounts that had like hundreds of thousands of followers and like those book fandom accounts where I took out the ads they thought I was throwing my money away they were like ‘Are you sure’ I'm like it was just, I think people judge me for doing that because all of that behaviour has like, it just has developed much more much different connotations, like people who take out ads are not personal people anymore they’re brands doing actual advertising budget marketing and to buy followers you think that's like scammers who like wanna like look like they have lots of followers so they can like to scam people like I don't know sign up to their like Bitcoin currency or whatever like you know. I just think the behaviours that I did I think I'd get shit for them not because someone would be looked on more kindly if they did them now I actually think it's exact opposite I think we looked less kindly on those behaviours now than when I did them back in 2013 and 2014 and because of that people sort of attached modern day connotations to events from the past that happened before those connotations even existed.”
Host: “you seem to use the scammer label it feels like sometimes as a means of assuaging the amount of hate thrown your way online”…. “to me you aren't as much of a scammer in the way that you aren't intending to hurt people but you're more like a schemer, like every scam you commit in the book that you call a scam, like flaking on the book deal, creating only fans or selling tarot cards, you're kind of doing it to survive, like it's always to pay off some sort of debt. Do you feel a little bit trapped by the word scammer?”
CC: “first of all I love this phonetic word play ‘Im not a scammer, Im a schemer’, I'm taking that, I'm putting it in my pocket, next time you read a book of mine expect to see that printed in there.” “But do I feel trapped by it? A little bit. I mean I definitely didn't choose it for myself so yeah I guess I do feel like a little bit whatever burden you get from anything in life that you didn't choose is…. I think there's another failure of language there for like whatever that feeling of burden is, and I definitely think there, but you know also like the savvy business person in me also sees it as like such a great opportunity like it's not like people labelled me with word that is like uninteresting or that like can't be absolutely fucking milked for everything it's worth to sell books, like thank God they… like it was a word that's like ‘we had the summer of scam’ & ‘we were so interested in scammers’ & ‘scam this’ and ‘scammer that’ and it's like such a juicy word and I'm so glad I got to like lock it down for my book title and on top of that it feels really good to call a book that because like I don't know if you're familiar with how google prioritises search engine optimization but in order to get like, when you have new press coming out about you, Google will like especially if the press say like, you know vogue, New Yorker, Washington Post article will obviously be prioritised but say something sort of smaller like dazed or the Toronto star, just something that like has an audience but it's not as big as like the prime things that Google prioritises, but you want people to see these articles because like they're positive, if those articles use keywords that are used in the other articles about you that have gotten lots of clicks like if Google recognises this as a continuation or an expansion of like a keyword narrative that's already been established around your name, Google will push out those - same as apple news and like pushing out those articles - and like it's just it's so great that by using ‘scammer’ I get to push out all these rave reviews of my book I get to make these giant like algorithmic powerhouses like do the labour for me of pushing out these like rave reviews to all of the people who participated in like clicking those original articles so like I just like yeah it's actually didn't choose it for myself but like why do I feel like I played the shit out of the hand I was dealt, you know”
I’m going to start using “failure of language” to explain anything I can’t adequately put into words, and I wanna say it’s a failure of language that I don’t have a word better than “mansplaining” to describe CC’s condescending explanations and unsolicited advice to the hosts in these last few parts of the podcast.
This podcast has really made clear to me that one of the purposes (perhaps the main purpose) for CC doing these near daily interviews is to help construct and rework her narrative, workshopping ideas and sentences for her next book/s & getting the instant feedback she used to get from IG.
My brain is very tired now - partially because it is nearly midnight here - but also because it is exhausting to try to parse the "barrage of blather" as it was so eloquently put in a comment on the part 1 post :')
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