intro
Heroic whistleblower Dr. McGreevey speaks faintly, because a couple of dirty Feds waterboarded him with diesel fuel, scarring his nose, throat and stomach. Therefore the linked video has a voice actor read McGreevey's muffled words as they were transcribed at the interview. However, the pdf download link for the transcript is broken. So I have restored (and possibly improved) the transcript by editing the YouTube auto-generated transcript.
My transcription is imperfect. There are errors at each stage of this game of telephone. The disabled Dr. McGreevy rambles; the original transcriptionist may have made errors; the voice actor occasionally speaks indistinctly; and YouTube auto-transcribe certainly errs frequently. I can only recover so much, and am too busy to refer to the original recording.
So forgive any non-sequiturs and ?question marks indicating uncertain transcription. The explosive contents of this message are worth reading, even in imperfect form. Corrections welcome!
In particular, note that some names are probably spelled phonetically rather than correctly, such as "Narwatches".
Once the Internet bloodhounds take this message seriously, I am sure a better transcript can be crowdsourced. Feel free to use mine as a starting point.
YouTube transcript, edited
Interviewer: This is an interview with Ryan Dark White. This is an interview for attorney Lynn Wood. This is Saturday, January 9 2021. And Ryan, if you could just give us a brief background, excuse us, brief background about yourself, where you grew up, where you went to school, just so we know a little bit more about you.
McGreevey: Ryan D White. It's not my birth name; it's not the name I prefer. Originally from Maryland. I hold graduate degrees, I held graduate degrees — I'll explain that — in physics, mathematics, biology and chemistry, from the University of Pennsylvania and Green College, Oxford. Graduate school would be University of Pennsylvania, John Hopkins University of Maryland, and University of Maryland's physics program.
Throughout this control that Rod has put on, he has actually personally sent letters, or his assistant, but he signed them. I went to school very young; it throws people off. And he used that against me. He would send letters to my schools, my undergrad and grad. He'd send letters to the military, saying that, "You know, this person Ryan White is using John McGreevey's information. John McGreevey is deceased, so best if you just destroy it.
He got much of it destroyed. There's still pieces there that can easily be verified and checked out, rebuilt, hopefully. But he did his best to destroy it.
He did the same thing with the military. The US Army, Army from '85 to '96, and Guard for Maryland, Guard for three years after that, three and a half years after that.
Rod apparently didn't know that the Guard was separate, so a lot, they have records, he didn't get to them. But like I said, it's easy enough to check them and find them in pieces, and hopefully somebody can help me put them back together.
This was just a means of control, a means to discredit me, to keep their secrets. You know, "Don't believe anything he says. He's a scumbag. No matter what he produces, he's a scumbag." So…
Interviewer: Okay, any more questions about the background?
Unknown female: I don't think so.
Interviewer: All right, that's good. Thanks Ryan.
END OF RECORDINGEND OF PART 1
TRANSCRIPT PART 2: BACKGROUND
Interviewer: All right, we're here with Mr. Ryan Dark White, doing an interview for a attorney Lynn Wood. Ryan, if you could give us a brief bit about your background
McGreevey: Ryan White is not my birth name. It's a name I ended up with, for safety. I have a background in physics, math, biology and chemistry. Graduate degrees in those. Then in the military, and then as a contractor-consultant for various intelligence agencies and think tanks throughout. Then in the late '90s, I became ordained, and was pretty much retired from all that, except for a think tank and consulting. But September 11th changed that for everyone.
Then in 2005, I met a doctor. We became friends. Dr. Afiq Abol Nasir, a very nice man and non-violent. He was born in Egypt into the Muslim Brotherhood. His childhood friend, from childhood in the neighborhood, all the way through high school, college, medical school was Event Alizar Ahi. Their families mixed. But Dr. Nasir did not believe in violence, especially with a country that took you in. He would maintain ties. His brother is the violent side. So much so that Dr. Nasir would not allow his children to be with him very long. They met their uncle when they went home, but, and Dr. Nasir would not allow his children to practice Islam.
So he provided a great deal of information and access to the violent side of terrorism overseas and within the US, and their structure, their financial structure, CAIR, things like that, the people involved, and provided many introductions.
I provided, I started providing this information to local law enforcement in Maryland, and it very quickly jumped to the Department of Justice in Baltimore, because much of it was out-of-state, and the crimes involved were federal-level crimes.
I started providing this in 2005, and in 2008 i started working directly with Rod Rosenstein in Baltimore. And because of the access with the other agencies, the FBI for instance would come for corroboration of something they were working on, or just ask questions: if i'd seen something like this, if this related to anything. Then it grew from there.
Because of the undercover nature of my, many of the investigations i worked on, terrorists or domestic terrorism within the country, they kept me fairly well-concealed, and access was limited to a certain group headed by Rod Rosenstein.
It became known as the dirty-trick squad in Baltimore. This is where they were using Hammer, Sunrise, Sunset, things like that to illegally spy on people — corrupt, well attempt to corrupt judges, compromised them, Hillary Clinton and others. I mean it was just ongoing.
They concentrated on judges, but they wanted to concentrate on [inaudible]. This was done under the guise of a CISSP operation. It's a DOJC SIMS computer operation. it was run out of Fort Washington, but had a satellite office location in Baltimore.
They would illegally compromise people, illegally wiretap, break into computers, plant reverse, change information, change emails, things of that nature. And it was in this capacity, of working with him, that the information about Judges Roberts and Pence and things like that have come out.
I've tried several times in the past to get it out, and was thoroughly squashed by Rod and the DOJ and the FBI, to a horrible extent. I tried again in 2015, tried to end-run them and go to the Department of Homeland Security. And once it got — I went there with a pile of evidence and some video and audio recordings. It got too large for them, I suppose, but it made its way back to the FBI and DOJ. And they came down on us again. That was in 2015.
In 2016 I made a video discussing quite a bit of this, in an effort to get it to Devin Nunes, who was the head of the House Intelligence Committee at the time. But there was interference from one of the people involved, and he messed that all up, so it went largely unnoticed.
But in the video I tried to warn President Trump about the people he was dealing with daily, and especially Rod, and things like that, as they were working together to remove them, trying to compromise the people around them when they possibly could.
Interviewer: Now where, now how were Rod and Rod Rosenstein and Mike Pence connected?
McGreevey: That group, I mean they're all interconnected, one way or the other. That particular group was Rod, Vice President Pence, Paul Ryan, that was the core of the group. Rod was in there, but that was the core of it.
It was an attempt where Rod was a brilliant legal mind behind it, to remove President Trump under the 25th Amendment. They had an operational name for it in the beginning, Run Silent Run Deep, but nobody really used it after a while, and it didn't make any sense, because it was such a small group. But that's an old movie about somebody being passed over for a promotion, which they've both felt like they were.
Now Vice President Pence hated Trump, because he had taken his slot as rightful President. He felt that he did. And Paul Ryan was actually considered running as well for the Vice Presidential slot, and Mitt Romney was also involved. But they don't, they thought President Trump was an outsider who had not paid his dues. They just didn't like him.
So once Vice President Pence was in there, once President Trump was elected, and obviously Vice President Pence, he just walked away, and everything became very quiet.
That was their mole inside. So he could run interference, and make certain things, and just keep tabs on the President, and manage him.
Interviewer: So was this a friendly relationship between Mike Pence and Rosenstein, or was there any kind of leverage being placed on the President or the Vice President at the time?
McGreevey: There was leverage on Mike Pence, because of the surveillance from way back in the 2013 range. They had gotten FISA warrants to exploit, and Rod had that. He wanted the Vice President slot himself. Then if they could remove President Trump, Vice President Pence becomes President, and Rod felt that he would be the natural selection for it. Paul Ryan felt differently, as did Mitt Romney, but that was the overall goal: Each one of them vying for the Vice Presidential slot.
Rod thought he was a clear winner, because of his legal brilliance and his management of the Mueller investigation and special counsels and things. You know, he would be the one to remove the President, damage him so thoroughly he could be removed, and he deserved it.
Interviewer: Okay, do you know what type of leverage would have existed over the Vice President?
McGreevey: The Vice President has had homosexual relations in the past. It's not a problem, many of them were adults. This is something he had done throughout his time in Congress. When he became Governor, he thought he had, thought that he was free to explore them more.
There were two specifically that they had recorded. One gentleman roughly 20 years his junior. They had a fairly steady relationship. There was one about half his age. That was much more sporadic, because it was more dangerous, harder to get time alone.
This person would introduce others, bringing people with him. He'd have people waiting when he showed up. And it was that second one that introduced the younger and younger people. "This is whomever. He's 17." And he's really 15. "This is whomever, he's 15." And he's really 13.
And Rod and Roberts, Chief Justice Roberts, a lot of the younger people involved, the ones that were brought in as favors, were supplied by Jeffrey Epstein's channels. Through his channels, his people.
We were able to get FISA warrants because Chief Justice Roberts had vice court, and helped prepare them. But it was also, Epstein was an intelligence asset of some type to various agencies around the world. They used his information, they exploited it for their own good. So when he was here, or his people were here, it was easy enough to justify a FISA warrant on them. You know, they would enact a warrant, surveil everything, documented, but they would not help, and they would not save the child. They would not, you know, reveal it. It was more important for them to have leverage on everything.
And of course, this was under their own corrupt ideas, but under Rod, his tutelage. And they wanted the leverage.
Interviewer: Do you know, do you have any idea how Epstein and the Supreme Court Justice Roberts initially would have met, or how that relationship would have developed?
McGreevey: How they would have met. I think they met when he was under Bush, not too long after he was appointed, somewhere along in there. Just meeting powerful people. Something like that. He did help him with his adopted children, from what was said. There was, you know, discussed openly in this little dirty-trick squad.
The children are not genetically brother and sister, but they're raised that way. So that's more valuable to them.
One if not both were originally from Wales, but they were in Epstein's channels, and were easily removed from their version of foster care to Ireland, which has much more open adoption type records.
He facilitated for Roberts, so that he could adopt them both at the same time. There was a little gap, but it was just paperwork. And Epstein had done that for him.
So they met, they worked together, and he was doing favors at some point.
Interviewer: Was this something the Supreme Court Justice Roberts would have paid for, or is this, you know, a favor exchange to Epstein, to link him up with these children, or?
McGreevey: I don't know. At that point, it's possible it could be either one.
I don't think there would be a payment at that point. It was more for his position; there would be some type of favor. But I don't know; either one was done. He facilitated it.
Interviewer: Uh-huh.
McGreevey: Was there a payment; was it a favor? I can't say.
Interviewer: Okay. Can you go into it anymore, details on Supreme Court Justice Roberts, with these children, and the circles that he ran in, as far as you're aware?
McGreevey: Children are often used as a commodity, a way to buy yourself into certain inner circles. And these people are all wealthy. They're all powerful, and they don't trust you unless you're as compromised as they are. So you provide children to them. Your children, adopted children, whatever.
This is how they trust you. You're as dirty as they are. You cannot be exposed, because you can't expose them, they can't expose you. If everybody's just as dirty, you know, you're safe.
And like I said, this is a way for them to buy their way into these inner circles, and get access to whatever. Children are the payment and the dirt and the control.
Interviewer: Now who else would we want to talk to, or is there any additional documentation that we could pursue, to solidify what you're saying here today?
McGreevey: Yep ?Yani has copies of the videos from the FISA surveillance. It was discussed, but I can't prove it, that Roberts has a copy. Rod Rosenstein certainly has a copy. Sean Henry of Crowdstrike, who was FBI at the time, he took two copies back to the FBI with him. So the copies were made, and then that was actually Sean Bridges who encrypted them and gave them the keys. So there are copies out there.
Interviewer: And who would be on these tapes, most likely, as far from your conversations in the dirty-trick squad?
McGreevey: From just those tapes, when i was talking about the copies?
Interviewer: Uh-Huh.
McGreevey: Those would be Pence and his two lovers, and the younger ones. There were also, they would do the same thing, illegal surveillance and sometimes ill [inaudible].
This was mostly in the country, illegal surveillance with Robert's children and whomever they were with. They'd set it up.
They knew that they weren't going to be exposed, because it's Chief Justice Robert's children.
And please keep in mind, these children have been abused since birth. And I don't want anything else happening. They've already lived through hell. They don't need anything else.
But they were getting loaned out for these different groups, and they did surveil many of them.
Interviewer: Okay. Now you also said in past discussions that there was a plot, that Roberts was allegedly part of, where they discussed murdering other judges on the Supreme Court under Hillary Clinton's administration. Can you give me some amplifying details on that?
McGreevey: This is something the FBI set up under their guidance, their political people, going to be a false flag.
This had gone out two years almost before the election, and it was a Sovereign Citizen group. Obama did not want any terrorism unless it was white terrorism, so this is a Sovereign Citizen group that had the FBI, that the FBI had infiltrated and armed and instigated against other targets. They were for the most part pro-America, but they were racist in some of their origins. There were a lot of them, a lot of them were divorced fathers with a grudge against the court system. Anyway.
And the FBI people had infiltrated and exploited this. They moved them up to the level of assassinating federal judges, political people, things like that. You want names, I can tell you.
So anyway, part of their was to, was various types of attack on the Supreme Court, to take down as many judges as they could. And Roberts was aware of this.
He actually provided some scheduling, because apparently the justices are not all there at one time. They come and go as they please. And these three would be working on something, these three. And he provided this to the group, so they could finalize their plan.
They were very, very close to what they were trying to do. They were given explosives and all types of automatic weapons. They had rocket launchers, and they were very close to it.
They were going to assassinate F Dennis Saylor, a federal judge in Massachusetts, Martha Coakley, Lisa Monaco and her family. They were going to make it look like a home invasion and film it until later, when they needed it. And this was their initial attack plan, and then the Supreme Court. This was a group that got infiltrated, on their request.
And when I found out what they were doing, they were going to attack these judges, they were going to attack the Supreme Court, I tried to end-run them. I had minders, people kept tabs on me. I had an FBI minder, but I tried to end-run around them and expose it.
I took all the evidence and went to Homeland Security, who were overwhelmed, and called in the FBI. And then the DOJ came right back at me, and they picked me up just a few weeks later, when they found out who I was.
The damage to their plots had been done. They did get close to assassinating people. Up there, Lisa Monaco, the judges were under 24/7 security. Martha Coakley had in-state security.
And it did prevent them from going after the Supreme Court, although their plans were all out. They had the maps, they had the weapons, they had everything planned. So at least it prevented something like that.
Interviewer: Now were the teams that were supposed to do the actual operations against the judges, were those Americans, or were they foreign?
McGreevey: No, these were Americans.
Interviewer: Okay.
McGreevey: A third would be the Sovereign Citizen group, and two-thirds would be the FBI people, or people working with the FBI. They were going to get rid of them anyway.
And actually I have recordings of their planning on the phone with me as, you know, part of this group. And then they did not hang up the phone, they did not kill the phone, and we were listening to them talk about killing me and my wife, things like that.
And another time they actually butt-dialed me, and they were talking about, he was on the phone talking to various people about their plans, about who they were going after, and what they were going to do to us, because we knew too much, and we were outside at the time.
So they could not do their plan. We got the people under surveillance. We saved them, got credit for saving them.
They were very upset that their plans had gone to crap. They were upset with me especially, when they came and picked me up. But it stopped it.
Their plans were written out. They were, they had maps, they had surveillance, they had quite a bit of equipment.
Interviewer: What was the timeline that they were hoping to do this in?
McGreevey: This would be right after, within the first year of Hillary Clinton's Presidency. She was not supposed to lose.
So this was all planned up, and it was more than just — then it was twofold. They wanted to pack the court, and they wanted to take out as many as they could. Roberts was actually helping, because he didn't want to be one of them, and he wanted some choice in who it would be on the bench. After that he wanted to maintain some form of control. So he did provide information.
But this was to be done within the first year of Hillary Clinton's campaign [sic], so they could ban firearms as well, and impact the court. So they have plenty of time to do that. This was their main two goals.
Interviewer: Do you believe the death of Antonin Scalia was a part of this same plot, or is that, do you know if that was separate?
McGreevey: It was the same people. He was a backup plan. He was their biggest threat, being the most conservative judge.
Justice Scalia actually, I believe he found out about this, the plans, and he went to the White House like a week before his death. I believe he found out what they were trying to do, when they moved away from the overall attack of where these people lived, or you know, they would attack around the holidays, where more than one justice would be in their home. Things like this. And again, Roberts was providing this.
But they had to take him out. He was seen as their biggest obstacle. So the same basic group that was involved were given access to the ranch where he was found.
They talked about how they did it. They had a couple of different options, but it was discussed prior to his death, what they intended to do, where they could possibly do it, how they could do it, who they would need. The records are there at the Cibolo Ranch. One person was brought in. There were three men. One person was brought in as a temp worker. The other two, same team, were brought in as servants for a group that was there hunting.
And they discussed how it was done. That they used ?dyspo ?dot dimethyl-sulfoxide, which is a fairly inert chemical it just goes through your skin. But if you can mix it with a poison or a drug or something like that, it'll go directly in your system and overload you. I believe that's what he was found with, his pillow over his face. He was struggling to breathe. He couldn't breathe; he was choking.
And this particular chemical, you can tailor it to the person. If they have a drug problem, you could put in fentanyl and overdose them. If they have a heart condition, it would take a very little to go directly in. It would be like a direct injection into the heart. And they talk about how they did it.
And Roberts is on the phone with these people, discussing his successor, that he wants to say in how. Because now he was going to be only one person, and he wanted to pick that person. And he wanted a say in who was going to take it.
And of course there was a lot of people there that were talking about Eric Holder taking it, all kinds of people, but he wanted a say in who was going to take over Justice Scalia's spot.
And i don't think he got it. I mean, obviously it didn't happen, because President Trump was here. But he did want it.
And this was all prior, the discussions on him complaining that he wasn't getting any say, prior to his death, his sudden death. So it is well-known, and…
Interviewer: So aside from the, aside from Roberts being on this, did Rosenstein or anyone outside the White House, have they been made aware of the plans, perhaps in Hillary's camp, that you can't, that you can speak about?
McGreevey: Oh Hillary and Obama knew about it. I mean it was supposed to be done under her watch, her term, so they could pack the court. They were fully aware of it.
Rod had an intense hatred of Hillary, even though he worked with her. He had to. He's not fond of Obama. Really he's only fond of himself.
But this was planned to be enacted through them, and Rod was integral in wanting the Hammer system throughout Baltimore. This is why he was the only US attorney to keep his job under Obama. Now Obama fired every US attorney at the same time, except Rod. He was the only one, and this is why: because he was running things for them. He was involved in their plans, and he was running the Hammer, and things through Baltimore.
Interviewer: So you've also done interviews as to — switching channels slightly, but I'm sure it'll tie back together — the death of Seth Rich.
McGreevey: Uh-Huh.
Interviewer: And Rod Rosenstein was witting in this, in this operation as well, I believe you correct
McGreevey: Yes, okay, sorry, he was there for their reasons, for the illegal reasons, but he also had to cover himself. When Seth Rich had gone in the first time, I don't have much information on it, other than what I've told, but not what I had seen personally. His first contact with Wikileaks, I just don't know.
I do know that when he went to him the second time, and came back, Wikileaks had directed him on how to get further information. And they wanted specific things: Look here, look there, here, here. Because we went in for the break-in, and he grabbed a lot of information, just downloaded everything he could, and it's, and that exposed a lot.
They were worried about the exposure, the DNC Hillary and Bowser and Brazil.
They were all very worried about it. But Rod was personally worried about it as well, because he had been authoring stuff to affect Hillary Clinton, and he didn't want that to come out. Because he would be out of it; he would be done. He would not be appointed to anything, and he had a personal interest in that one.
So when he got dumped in his lap to handle the problem, he hired, tapped people, who he'd already worked with for years, who were dirty. And he controlled, they owed their continued federal careers to him. He had saved them before, looked over other things, and allowed them to continue their career. And he, people all around him in one small circle in Baltimore.
Interviewer: So it was intended to be an assassination of Seth Rich, or was it more intended to be a robbery, or do you know?
McGreevey: Intended to be a robbery. Rough him up. All they wanted was a thumb drive they routinely carried on him. The information he was going to pass to Wikileaks, what he had uncovered, the more focused information that Wikileaks had requested. That's what they wanted.
He did not leave it at home. He always carried it, because he had people living with him.
And again, Rod was very upset that this could expose everything, and wreck his plans. He would have been done. It was a fairly tenuous relationship, you know, him being a Republican and things. But he had proved himself to be really dirty like they were, and willing to give access to everything he was doing for them.
So he had to recover it, and they didn't care, he did not care how it was done, except for it was supposed to be robbed. They had to recover it; did not care. But Rod put the additional thing on it, was: Get it no matter how.
He hired, tapped his agent friend from the DEA, who he had covered for many, many times, and he's dirty, in Baltimore and other places throughout Maryland, and then put him in charge of it. He recruited someone else, and then they went down.
And this particular DEA agent is a gang specialist for the DEA. He specializes further in MS-13. He was the one who went outside the local people and hired, who found the two MS-13 people down south, and brought them up, or met them actually. They came up and met him, and he brought them into the city, and things went poorly beyond that.
They were supposed to rob him. Then two guys went ahead and killed him, shot him. He died later.
They recovered the thumb drive, which was then switched for one that Rod had provided, the one that Sean had loaded up for this for him previously. So he did, he was able to recover, his involvement in altering emails, breaking into Hillary Clinton's server, things like that. And he kept…
Interviewer: So they switched a thumb drive that was on the body for a thumb drive that Rod had prepared to be left behind as a…
McGreevey: Right.
Interviewer: Okay.
McGreevey: One that would be convincing but not exposing.
Interviewer: Understood.
McGreevey: A lot of it was the same information, but not because, they knew that breaches had occurred, so a lot of it was the same thing. Just a void of anything that would point towards them or Rod specifically.
And things rapidly went downhill, because they couldn't break into it. It was encrypted. They got it to a couple of different people. They couldn't get it, couldn't get into it. And they decided to clean up the mess.
And one DEA agent went down the following day, called out, took his wife's car, and drove down and killed them. Things like that.
So it went bad quickly. Once he died, it's supposed to be a robbery, and the next thing they hear is, you know, Donna Brazile and Muriel Bowser, the mayor of DC were at the hospital, before he was even brought in.
And they did have people at the crime scene as well. They were there to recover it.
As I said, it was supposed to be a robbery, and he was supposed to be, you know, beat up, unconscious, bad shape. And they wanted to recover the thumb drive. That's why they went there.
Interviewer: So back to Rod Rosenstein for a moment. What can you tell us about his involvement with foreign nations, with any type of intelligence transfer to groups outside the country?
McGreevey: This goes back to the FBI operation called Ghost Stories. It was very successful. They just kept heavy surveillance on known Russian assets within the US. Everything they were doing, whatever they found, you know, they were communicating back. It was just surveillance.
But if you knew that, what you were sending back, then it would go the other way. You could tell people what they were accessing, and what they had access to. Thoroughly good operation. It was supposedly very successful.
It was Obama and Biden who did the Russian reset, along with Secretary Clinton. And they didn't want any problems with the Russians, so they told him to cancel it.
Well, they didn't. They kept their communication open with him. It just changed. Instead of just surveillance, they started communicating. They started providing information. And initially it was wrong, but then they started giving it to them in exchange, in an exchange-type situation. Then they started altering the information, giving them information, giving them inaccurate information. They were working from, they were working them from the other side.
Rod was aware of this; he was part of it at this time, because once it was shut down, it became under the heading of the DOJ in Maryland in DC. So he was part of it. And then they were giving up this information, they tried to pay him, and he didn't take it. He got, he was like, "Oh no no no no no." Because they were coming towards 2015-2016 at the time, and he was angling for a big position: Attorney General, Supreme Court, and hopefully Vice President. So he didn't want anything like that to pop up.
Well, Sean Bridges was actually taking the money they were offering. He was laundering it through Bitcoin around the world, and Rod was hyper-pissed when he found out. It's one of the reasons he went after Sean, and put him in jail. He's still there. And so the deal was, you get six years, keep your mouth shut, or we'll go after you for everything and get 40.
But he started talking, had too much access when he was in Terra Haute, and they brought him out to Virginia, where he's at now, just to keep an eye on him.
Interviewer: Okay.
END OF TRANSCRIPT
INTERVIEW WITH DR. JOHN MCGREEVEY CONTINUED:VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE
Interviewer: All right, we're here again with Ryan Dark White, taking an interview for Attorney Lynn Wood. We're going to speak briefly about Vice President Mike Pence in specific, and as much amplifying detail as we can gather as to his relationships, and any crimes he may be a part of.
Dr. John McGreevey: Okay, Mike Pence, when he was in Congress, he had been surveilled multiple times. He is known to be bisexual, but tries to keep it hidden. He puts forth a persona of uber-Christian. When he was Governor, he was very strict on the gay and lesbian communities, things like this, to hide that.
He was surveilled then, and it was well-known that — the FBI and CIA do illegal surveillance of many members of, you know, politicians at all levels, to get it. It's all illegal. They want the leverage. And it's well-known, they said.
Interviewer: So he was just kind of caught up in a dragnet of just general surveillance of congressional members.
Dr. John McGreevey: I mean, it was known. There were rumors. So they [inaudible] down and did the surveillance through.
Interviewer: Just to have a good baseline for future, I suppose.
Dr. McGreevey: Well, one he's a politician.
Interviewer: Uh-Huh.
Dr. McGreevey: He'll be around. He has influence. So the FBI is all about getting influence. Now they're dirty, so they control it.
It's not like they control it every day. They don't tell them, "Do this, this and this." It's just that when they need the big one, they can call it in. And then when he became Governor, he felt more secure to pursue his longer-term relationships.
Like I said, there's only one roughly 20 years his junior, that was a longer term one, that he had had when he was in Congress. And then there's one that was much more sporadic, but that gentleman's about half his age. He's the one that introduced the younger and younger people to him.
But as Governor, he felt it was much more secure, not as wide open, able to pursue it. And he went the other way with his politics and crackdown on gay and lesbian communities. He would never have anything to do with that.
Interviewer: Now Mike Pence is known to never be in public with another woman besides his wife. Do you know that has he ever been seen in public with these young men? Was that something he ever felt like he needed to hide, or is it just kind of swept under the… ?
Dr. McGreevey: I don't know if he was in a public with him or not. They would usually set up a location that was already wired up before he got there, so, or it was a known location, or the location like the younger gentleman was helping, and he helped set him up, so he would tell them when and where they were going to meet.
That's why he was, he was the one that was about half his age, was, I've seen the videos. I mean, I've seen a few, from when he was in Congress. But I've seen these from when he was Governor, and made copies of them, and Sean encrypted them, Sean Bridges. So he, that guy was actually working with the FBI to set him up. So he would provide locations where they were going to meet, and they'd be there ahead of time.
So they had, there were probably the best surveillance tapes they had of him. The other ones would be this or that, some better than others. This one you got the whole group.
Interviewer: Uh-huh.
Dr. McGreevey: And when he actually got into talks about being Vice President, running with President Trump, they shut it down. Because they had everything they needed to control the Vice President. And it looks like they did.
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