Saturday, November 28, 2020

[Daily Discussion] Sunday, November 29, 2020

Thread topics include, but are not limited to:

  • General discussion related to the day's events
  • Technical analysis, trading ideas & strategies
  • Quick questions that do not warrant a separate post

Thread guidelines:

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • Do not make posts outside of the daily thread for the topics mentioned above.

Other ways to interact:


[Altcoin Discussion] Sunday, November 29, 2020

Thread topics include, but are not limited to:

  • Discussion related to recent events
  • Technical analysis, trading ideas & strategies
  • General questions about altcoins

Thread guidelines:

  • Be excellent to each other.
  • All regular rules for this subreddit apply, except for number 2. This, and only this, thread is exempt from the requirement that all discussion must relate to bitcoin trading.
  • This is for high quality discussion of altcoins. All shilling or obvious pumping/dumping behavior will result in an immediate one day ban. This is your only warning.
  • No discussion about specific ICOs. Established coins only.

If you're not sure what kind of discussion belongs in this thread, here are some example posts. News, TA, and sentiment analysis are great, too.

Other ways to interact:


When gambling works...

I entered the market with a 1500 bucks in oct 2017. it went slowly down for a few years while I sat on bags of shitty penny stocks I was sure would moon some day. mvis, bpmx who the fuck knows. was in vegas for an industry show and not in the mood to gamble so I opened a robinhood account and bought whatever meme stock was around then.

When Covid happened I had about 700 bucks in the account and was looking at virus research. I then realized mrna was cheap and I opened up robinhood. Ithought their vaccine tech was awesome. I have a phd in a different field, but I know all science pretty well. Covid was a black swan event and I played my account up to 3500 or so over a few months.I had paper hands and jumped out way too soon on most of my plays. But I learned along the way. Then tech stocks fizzled and I jumped out of bio on some dips and did not know how to reenter or how high they could eventually go. I was lost for a while and then started trying to jump on short squeezes and time my exit. This turned out to be very profitable. I recently moved to looking at spacs because they have so little downside and so much potential upside.

I have focused on short time frame swing trades on low cap meme stocks. I do half assed tech analysis and take deep dives looking into the companies that I trade. but I really just try to figure out what stock internet will pump and get in before it blows up to high and out before it tops. Worst part is my paper fucking hands. So many positions I jumped out of after 5 to 7% retracement only to see it moonshot next week hundreds of percent. Not regret, but a good lesson, there is some serious money to be made. I understand oscillations so much better now and it has helped me not sell through normal dips.

I have a retirement account. I dont fuck with that. This is gambling through and through. I have taken some profits to pay off my initial investment (lol), a small home equity loan, and a project jeep I set aside a few years ago. I now have this 14.5k to turn into something. I am putting a big chunk of my account in ARK ETFs and using the other for high risk trades de jour. You can see my positions in the post. I was in crypto last week hoping for bitcoin to moon, but I jumped out as it could not break 19k. I dont understand options enough to trade them.

https://preview.redd.it/v4t5dkete3261.jpg?width=1150&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5492d205c439792f40b6bb22c5648bd11178445c


My twin brother invested in Bitcoin, while I invested in Silver. His net worth is now more than 100x mine.

Posting on a throwaway account, for obvious reasons.

In 2013, my uncle passed away from pancreatic cancer. In his will, he left my twin brother and I $100,000 each.

My brother and I were talking about our different investments at the time, and how we were going to invest our new money. For the last decade or so, I’ve been a silver bug, and I argued that silver was, IMO, the best alternative investment to stocks and bonds. He had just learned about Bitcoin and was adamant that the return could be exponential. I had vehemently argued against Bitcoin, saying that it was pure speculation and would be a total waste of money.

Well, he ended up investing about 50k into Bitcoin around then (when Bitcoin was ~$100 each), for over 500 coins. I, on the other, invested most of it into stocks, and about 30k into silver.

My brother has never sold any of his Bitcoins. He’s never even traded them for other crypto currencies. His job pays him very well very, so he’s never really had liquidity issues. He has still 500+ coins.

My 30k investment into silver in 2013 is now worth about 26k, and my entire net worth is below 100k. My brother’s 50k Bitcoin investment, however (which was made within months of the same time as my silver investment), is now worth over $10 million. His wealth in Bitcoin alone is more than 100 times greater than my entire net worth.

He’s going to retire soon. He will be selling his house, and live and an investor. He plans to travel a lot with the wife and kids, and it seems like his life is set.

Now, he did give me one Bitcoin. And I will not sell it. As happy as I am for him, though, it really hurts to hear about his fortune and bright future, and not be jealous. I’ve stopped attending family events (him too), because I can’t get over the overwhelming thought of “hey, you should’ve done what your brother did”, at every waking moment. It’s extremely depressing. I try to be thankful for what I do have, and I try to be thankful since I know that many other people in the world have it way worse. But I don’t know if I’ll ever get over it. Whenever I’m working, I try to distract myself from the thought that “if you made the same investment, you wouldn’t have to work anymore,” but the thought always keeps coming back.

Any advice?


My twin brother invested in Bitcoin and became a multimillionaire, while I invested in silver

Posting on a throwaway account, for obvious reasons.

In 2013, my uncle passed away from pancreatic cancer. In his will, he left my twin brother and I $100,000 each.

My brother and I were talking about our different investments at the time, and how we were going to invest our new money. For the last decade or so, I’ve been a silver enthusiast, and I argued that silver was, IMO, the best alternative investment to stocks and bonds. He had just learned about Bitcoin and was adamant that the return could be exponential. I had vehemently argued against Bitcoin, saying that it was pure speculation and would be a total waste of money. I was so sure that Bitcoin would crash.

Well, he ended up investing about 50k into Bitcoin around then (when Bitcoin was ~$100 each), for over 500 coins. I, on the other, invested most of it into stocks, and about 30k into silver.

His 50k Bitcoin investment, which was made within months of the same time as my 30k silver investment, is now worth over $10 million. My 30k silver investment in 2013 is now worth about 26k, with my entire net worth below 100k. His wealth in Bitcoin alone is more than 100 times greater than my entire net worth.

He has never sold any of his Bitcoins. He’s never even traded them for other crypto currencies. His job pays him very well, so he’s never really had liquidity issues. He has still 500+ coins, and he’s going to retire soon. He is planning to sell his house, travel, and live as an investor.

Now, he did give me one Bitcoin. And I will not sell it. As happy as I am for him, though, it really hurts to hear about his fortune and bright future, and not be jealous. I’ve stopped attending family events (him too), because I can’t get over the overwhelming thought of “hey, you should’ve done what your brother did”, at every waking moment. It’s extremely depressing. I try to be thankful for what I do have, and I try to be thankful since I know that many other people in the world have it way worse. But I don’t know if I’ll ever get over it. The thought that “if you made the same investment, you wouldn’t have to work anymore” always comes to me, in every area of my life. I always think to myself, you wouldn’t have to work, or you wouldn’t have money issues like this if you just invested a little into Bitcoin. This thought is especially pervasive whenever I’m at work, and it is a crushing feeling.

Any advice on how to cope?


Why do you think Bitcoin could go higher?

The reason I’m posting here is because I have been following bitcoin for nearly 10 yrs investing here and there etc but was pretty surprised to come on this subreddit and see the almost obsessive, fanatical btc following ( I don’t mean to offend but this is the impression I get from some of the comments I’ve seen) with wild estimates of $10million per btc and would love to hear some of the reasons for much higher estimates and who knows maybe even change someone else perspective lol. I am going to do the classic: I am not a financial advisor, I have no idea if bitcoin will go up or down or what price it may or may not reach, this post is pure speculation and should be treated as such.

I can see a really strong argument for bitcoin hitting the $450k mark - but not much further.

Let me explain:

I believe Bitcoin to be much more comparable to gold than to any liquid currency that could legitimately be spent - one major reason is due to the speed of the transactions.

While the speed of a bitcoin transaction is really fantastic when compared to gold (I can send a bitcoin from UK -> US in like an hour, a flight to get a bar of golf there would take much longer and be much more expensive).

However when compared to using a fiat currency it is agonizingly slow, and I believe that it is destined to slow down as adoption picks up. This is quite obviously much much less practical than the current system, if I want to buy a bottle of milk I don’t want to have to stand in Sainsbury’s (Walmart to you Americans) for a few hours lol.

I am making this point purely from a usability perspective - let’s not get bogged down in the evil of the central bankers here!

So back to the original point, assuming that we have come to the conclusion that Bitcoin is much more like gold than any practical currency.

The market cap of gold is approx. $8 trillion (8,000,000,000,000) At the time of writing the cost of 1btc is ~$17,000 with the market cap at ~$317bil (~$317,000,000,000).

If we were to assume that bitcoin was to completely replace gold and become worth $8trillion. This seems unlikely to me so this would be a generous estimate, I would expect investors to diversify rather than completely switch holdings, so would probably dilute the gold market.

8000/317 * 17000 = 429,000

-> (goldMarketCap/btcMarketCap) * btcCurrPrice = finalEstimate

Of course this is a rough and fairly generous estimate so the real value I would personally be expecting would certainly be a fair bit lower than this.

Please note this is not to say that I don’t think there aren’t crypto’s out there that couldn’t perform the function of currency and I have almost no doubt that crypto’s will replace paper cash in the future (although not necessarily replace current online payment systems entirely) but I currently don’t see it happening with btc

Would love to hear some opinions on this estimate and I’m sure there are plenty available!

Edit: As I said speed of transactions is only one thing holding me back from the idea of bitcoin a contender as the ultimate global currency and in fairness Lightning network is on the way so there’s that...

Here’s a couple more questions/points which I feel no one has supplied me with a good enough answer to:

1) There are various ways that btc leave circulation e.g. someone dying and access being lost to their account. One that worries me much more is that dust accumulation in various abandoned wallets. Although less coins in circulation will lead to higher value per coin, ultimately the network can’t function properly if there are not enough Satoshi left in existence and dust will gradually (vary gradually) whittle away at the available amount forever - until this point is reached - what’s the soln here? Surely it would just be better to use a coin with an extremely moderate amount of minting every year forever to make up for lost dust?

2) people have to handle their private keys with no safety net - or at least handle their own wallets. Forgetting the password, losing the piece of paper with your seed or having a gun pointed at your head with a demand to transfer your life savings seems like a real issue to me. Sure you could allow an exchange or third party to handle your funds but this would somewhat be like using a bank, which is kind of defeating the point no? The major benefit of banks and financial institutions imo is that they essentially guarantee your money even in an event you get scammed or robbed, they will replace it. Would love to hear some responses to this particularly.


Daily (Definition) - ShakePay's "Shaking Sats Program"

As a new client, I am now on a 2-day shaking streak for earning free Bitcoin. I am curious as to when I can shake my phone on the next day in order to continue my streak. Do I need to wait at least 24 hours from the previous shake event or can I start shaking on the next day at 12:01AM?

Scenario 1: If I shake my phone today at 9:00AM, do I need to wait 24 hours to shake again at 9:00AM the next day?

Scenario 2: If I shake my phone today at 9:00AM, can I shake it again in about 15 hours at 12:01AM?

I am simply curious about the model that is implemented. That's all. Please let me know if you know the answer and enjoy your weekend! =)


An overlooked drawback of custodial wallets.

Twenty years pass and Bitcoin becomes the largest store of value. Some people use custodial wallets; large investors and nerds use non-custodial wallets.

A flaw is discovered. Or maybe someone wants to create a cryptocurrency with different properties (privacy coin, smart contracts, different proof of work, etc.) In either case, they might hard fork Bitcoin and make their own crypto.

It's moderately successful. Maybe it fulfills some other niche. Maybe it's better. Maybe it's actually worse but chumps don't know. The fact is all owners of Bitcoin when the fork happens have a stake in the new crypto. See Bitcoin cash.

This is fantastic if you have a non-custodial wallet. Sell the new crypto and make some cash or hodl and hope for the best. In either case: because you held your own keys you get access to the hard fork coins.

What if you have a custodial wallet? This is unprecedented territory. PayPal's policy states:

"In the event of a fork, PayPal will evaluate the feasibility of supporting the fork and determine whether and to what extent any new assets resulting from the fork may be supported and/or allocated."

If you hodl with PayPal, there is no guarantee that you get the hard fork coins. Sad

Suppose that the majority of coins are held by custodial wallets. A hard fork will fail under this condition because it wouldn't be in the interest of the customers to let it succeed.

While I consider myself a Bitcoin maximalist, I do believe that alt-coins have their place in the crypto ecosystem. Custodial wallets pose a significant obstacle in a successful bitcoin hard fork because they centralize allocation and thereby disincentivize adoption.


How to fork bitcoin

To begin with, we’ll take you through the fundamentals. How to fork bitcoin happens when two diggers find legitimate squares simultaneously. Accordingly, when two squares have a similar square stature, this is alluded to as a fork.

The chances of finding the following squares on the two branches simultaneously again are fairly low. Be that as it may, in the event that one split of the blockchain develops longer, excavators will join this split, withdrawing the more limited split.

The squares in the more limited variant are classified “vagrant squares”.

No exchanges are lost since exchanges on the stranded square, in the event that they were not as of now added to the substantial square, are re-communicated to the organization and added into the following legitimate square. These forks generally don’t change the hidden convention. On the off chance that a fork, notwithstanding, is purposeful, it is alluded to as a lasting fork.