Monday, April 29, 2019

Transcript of Developer Meeting in Discord - March 29, 2019

Pho3nix Monk3y03/29/2019

Is this unlocked?

oh cool. yes it is

Guess we need an admin to unlock it. Some of our devs cant type in here yet.

@shiggidy @traysi ★★★★★ Can yall unlock this channel?

traysi ★★★★★03/29/2019

Should be open now

bhorn03/29/2019

open!

GhostDogsGhost03/29/2019

heya!

SamzOnline [w1ne]03/29/2019

Woot

theking03/29/2019

Glad to be here.

traysi ★★★★★03/29/2019

@Jeroz can you type now?

Jeroz03/29/2019

Works now

ty

Pho3nix Monk3y03/29/2019

Great. Didn't really have an agenda for this meeting I'm told. Can open it up? Anyone have anything to start?

Bianca_NL03/29/2019

YaY

GhostDogsGhost03/29/2019

testnet voting on messaging bip?

Pho3nix Monk3y03/29/2019

I like it.

@GhostDogsGhost You might be the main "answerer of questions" for this. Not sure where @[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs is.

GhostDogsGhost03/29/2019

anyone know if it's passed? if and when it'd be great to get some usage

Vincent03/29/2019

all good @traysi ★★★★★

Jeroz03/29/2019

Messaging is active on testnet now. The vote passed.

traysi ★★★★★03/29/2019

I'll try to clean up the permissions for this channel to make it simpler for future meetings.

Jeroz03/29/2019

There is no GUI yet to test it.

GhostDogsGhost03/29/2019

sweet -- yeah just rpc for now

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

here

Pho3nix Monk3y03/29/2019

yay

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

So, for messaging. There is not GUI, we really want to test the protocol which you can use fully through the rpc console.

We understand that this limits the number of users that will want to do testing but we wanted to get it out there asap to find bugs

Jeroz03/29/2019

Is there list of commands / little guide on how to get started with them in the console?

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

Also, we wanted to let everyone know that we are going to try and get messaging protocol and restricted assets on mainnet at the same time. This means that the release for messaging might be delayed by a couple weeks. The devs are working really hard to make this happen and hope that the community is willing to wait a little longer for mainnet messaging.

There are commands like sendmessage listmessages and subscribe rpc calls yes

Jeroz03/29/2019

That would mean 1 hardfork instead of 2 right?

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

Exactly @Jeroz

[Master] Roshii03/29/2019

Hello!

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

Also, the Qt for messaging wont be released until after the hardfork, but the Qt for messaging and restricted assets would be in the same release.

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

Hello! Thanks for holding this meeting.

Jeroz03/29/2019

Will dividends also be included to that? @WhaleStreet (BW) (not sure if you are here)

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

Dividends can be released at anytime it is completed as it doesn't require a hardfork

Jeroz03/29/2019

I meant the GUI update

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

For restricted assets, will owners of !uniquename have a grace period to claim $uniquename ?

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

I am not sure on the GUI for dividends.

We are still figuring out if we are going to allow for a grave period or not. I think we are leading to the answer of Yes there will be a grace period.

but we aren't sure yet

SamzOnline [w1ne]03/29/2019

I've been studying and out of the loop of the RVN scene for a long time - is there any chance of someone updating me on what y'all talking about?

Pho3nix Monk3y03/29/2019

We have also been going through and cleaning up issues in GitHub. Tried to clean up tags in there as well. We will probably start going though those on a weekly ->monthly basis to stay ahead of things.

Vincent03/29/2019

community seens to agree !ASSET has exclsuvie on $ASSET

GhostDogsGhost03/29/2019

Silva -- that's open for discussion -- I think the general sentiment is that there should be some preference given to current asset owners

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@SamzOnline [w1ne] We are talking about the roadmap and how the development of the new features are coming along.

SamzOnline [w1ne]03/29/2019

Lovely many thanks

Vincent03/29/2019

what is the justification on only a grace period?

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

Is it possible to reissue a !ownership as a $ownership?

Jeroz03/29/2019

@SamzOnline [w1ne]

https://medium.com/@tronblack/ravencoin-tags-and-restricted-assets-84fe3070a226

https://medium.com/@tronblack/ravencoin-kaaawww-2f72077aece

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@Vincent I don't think is has exclusive rights. More like a first right of refusal for a couple months

Synicide03/29/2019

agree there should be some kind of grace period, or users that originally registered those assets will feel shafted

Vincent03/29/2019

but what is that justification?

if you are building Applein ur garage, you may need a few yrs to go public

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

Issue being assets will cease to be unique with two different types about

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

True.

We aren't sure on what approach will be taken yet

Synicide03/29/2019

should regular and restricted assets share the same 'uniqueness of naming'?

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

Please the community let us know what you think is fair.

This topic will 100% need to be discussed a lot

Vincent03/29/2019

when it was announced, there was a lot of discussion; most seemed to agree

SamzOnline [w1ne]03/29/2019

@Jeroz Many thanks

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

If the consensus is that we shouldn't allow for ASSET! and $ASSET to be issued by different people then we will need to make sure that is the right approach. The code hasn't been written yet.

GhostDogsGhost03/29/2019

Some of this will depend on what we end up pricing the $ASSETS at (burn for issuance)..

Vincent03/29/2019

prcing shouldnt matter imo

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

We need to determine how important unique asset names are, for varying types.

Vincent03/29/2019

should be the owner of the asset name

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org Exactly

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

hey all, sorry im late :thumbsup:

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

Howdy

Synicide03/29/2019

If someone registers !company123, and starts building a platform for themselves, seems they should be given an option to convert to $company123, and shouldnt have to worry about another party creating $company123

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

They will be given that option

Vincent03/29/2019

indefinately

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

the question is, is that option going to exist for forever, or maybe only 4 months

Vincent03/29/2019

then the worry still exists

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

I definitely vote for ! And $ to only be issued by the same people

Synicide03/29/2019

lets say they choose not to, can someone else create $company123? Or is that unqiue name shared?

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

I believe, ideally, a reissuance option would be available at anytime from !ownership

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@Synicide That decision hasn't been made yet

theking03/29/2019

@[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs I do agree that releasing both messaging and restricted assets at same time makes sense so there is only one hard fork. What is the current thinking on tentative timeline before they would both be on main net?

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

im excited about this memo indication, its useful because it means a buyer of an asset sending rvn can indicate the 'return address' without the 'seller of the asset receiving ravencoin' having to transverse the full vin/vout chain to obtain the source address to dispatch asset to. Is there a timeline for this feature or any documentation on it @[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs ?

Synicide03/29/2019

my 2 cents, they should be a shared pool of unique names. The door is opened for scammers galore if it isnt.

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@theking A couple months atleast.

To make sure it is tested on testnet for long enough

theking03/29/2019

That makes perfect sense!

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@push | ravenland.org It will be on mainnet as soon as it and restricted assets are tested. Is the goal

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

excellent, i look forward to it

Chill03/29/2019

Thank you for taking the time to bring up the ! and $ ownership issue. It's of extreme importance imo

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

its gods work your doing there

bitnaive03/29/2019

yeah it seems like any modifiers to the original !NAME should belong to !NAME

DirkDiggler (RVN ded)03/29/2019

I would like to voice concern over the idea of the "grace period".... The idea of a UNIQUE asset name is key to our success. Many of us jumped on names we wanted. This doesn't feel right to need to have yet another name floating around if it's not controlled by the !OWNERSHIP token

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

@Chill NP :p

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

Yes please on only 1 hard fork

Chill03/29/2019

unique is unique. I have 510 of them!

Synicide03/29/2019

@DirkDiggler (RVN ded) grace peroid wont matter if the naming pool is shared for uniqueness

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

So, If I own GOOGLE!, and I don't want $GOOGLE, no one should be allowed to own it?

DirkDiggler (RVN ded)03/29/2019

exactly

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

@[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs Ideally, yes

bhorn03/29/2019

that feels right to me

Jeroz03/29/2019

yes

SamzOnline [w1ne]03/29/2019

Interesting

DirkDiggler (RVN ded)03/29/2019

yes

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

@[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs I'm good w that

Synicide03/29/2019

that makes the most sense to me. As said, opens the door to scammers if not

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

Would add extra value to the ownership token as well

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

If more power is given to !ownership(changing type), more value is added to said asset, by way of design and ability

Vincent03/29/2019

and if you want to covert your assets to restricted yrs from now you will have a logistic nightmare if you have a bunch of owners

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

I feel like, if we give people the option to register the restricted asset $ and they don't want it, that it is only fair that it is up for grabs

bitnaive03/29/2019

maybe no one else should be allowed to issue it but it can be transferred

Vincent03/29/2019

why?

Chill03/29/2019

I really don't think that's fair, to be honest

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

@[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs Unique names are lost, in that case.

And in that way, !ownership loses value by not having the ability to change, if need be

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

Yeah I'd rather see the one name issued only forever

bitnaive03/29/2019

that way, if some one wants it. the can contact the owner for it.

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

I think restricted assets have a different use case than regular assets, and they can be frozen.

Vincent03/29/2019

i can buy ravenland and revent push from moving forward with is project (after grace)

DirkDiggler (RVN ded)03/29/2019

seems like from a "code" perspective... the idea of 2 different (but similar names) would be a nightmare as well

Jeroz03/29/2019

Ideally give reissuable the extra option of making it restricted in my mind. I have mixed feelings about tokens traveling around that have the same asset name but are a different type.

Vincent03/29/2019

all his logos would have to change to his new name

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

They not have them remain one in the same? With the ability to change to restricted, should they have to. Though reissuance?

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@Vincent That is why push would have plenty of time to pick up the ravenland restricted asset if he wanted it

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

One of our selling points over ETH is that ETH can issue a bunch of the same named assets as long as the contract address is different

Vincent03/29/2019

bbut who says what is enough time

i may need yrs

bhorn03/29/2019

the extra cost could be onerous as well

Chill03/29/2019

when the asset layer was launched, it was billed as being unique names. Be careful in changing this, please.

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

True, that amount of time isn't determined yet, if this is the route that is taken

bhorn03/29/2019

some have many many many assets

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

RVN, u issue that name once, it can never be duplicated

DirkDiggler (RVN ded)03/29/2019

where as having just another sub asset type ($RESTRICTED) falls under the same hierarchy already defined

bhorn03/29/2019

and the RVN is not as cheaply replaced

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@Chill Not changing that, just talking about the next asset usecase and how it could be coded is all

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

What kind of burn costs are we thinking w issuing restricted assets?

Synicide03/29/2019

@[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs what if push decides not to, then someone else registers it for malicious intent with the same name? Surely the person who built their company on chain doesnt want another token of their company name out there

Vincent03/29/2019

@[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs you seem to be the only one fighting for the garce period

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor Not sure yet, going to be more than regular issuanace is the thought.

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

Agreed

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

@Vincent Simply bringing it into conversation, no harm

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@Vincent Not fighting, just keeping an open mind. I just code it, I am not the one making the decision.

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

hey this is a bit of a random question but i get a lot of subassets send to me, what about wildcard sending via the wallet? like if i wanted to send RAVENLAND/* to an address

Vincent03/29/2019

true but just showing what the concesous is

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@push | ravenland.org Create a request in the issues on github for extra functionality

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

:thumbsup:

will do mate

Synicide03/29/2019

seems if ! and $ arent shared unique, then companies will have to register both just to protect themselves

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

How about a unique asset w re-issuable IPFS?

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

We should be giving more power to !ownership by allowing it the ability to change to $ - Not giving less power to !ownership by duplicating unique names.

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

GUNCERT provided a valid use case IMO for unique w re-issuable IPFS

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@Vincent Sure I get that.

Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)03/29/2019

Agrees

If this is a possibility, to give the restricted assets to those who own the normal ones, it ought to be done

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor Looking in on how to do that. The request is on github just don't have the time to implement it yet.

restricted assets, will have to be issued. and the corresponding amount of rvn will be burned for them

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

it'd be nice to see a ravencoin network swarm, us and mango farms are doing something with that so if anyone else wants to get involved, i think its a worthwhile thing to build the power of the ravencoin ipfs hash network to keep them hashes alive

Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)03/29/2019

Yikes

Ah well

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

i wrote a programmatic script to scrape all the ipfs files, so i can probably runa simple enough shellscript to ipfs add pin everything from chain

Vincent03/29/2019

plus ravenland sent me a bunch of tokens...they will be worthless now!!! :sunglasses:

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

:joy:

vincent

one day tho eh

Chill03/29/2019

my 250,000 RVN that were spent on RVN assets are feeling pretty weak at the moment

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@Vincent haha ravenland assets are still assets. They just don't have the ability to freeze then and stop you from trading them

DirkDiggler (RVN ded)03/29/2019

you got to have one ring to rule them all... the Unique Ownership Token does that

SamzOnline [w1ne]03/29/2019

@Chill That puts my 80 to shame!

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@Chill Like I said, no decision has been made yet.

Vincent03/29/2019

@[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs just playing with that one

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@Vincent Yeah, I understand

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

Changing gears alittle, Has any further thought been put into privacy?

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

a tor network with proxychains could be effectively used to privatize a node

Jeroz03/29/2019

Seems that we need to continue discussions about the asset naming and make a write up about the proposals.

I have a different question:

About metadata and transactions. Tron mentioned that it will be possible to attach metadata to every transaction. It was unclear to me whether he meant every messaging transaction or every regular RVN/Asset transaction.

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

ive been looking into this a little bit

Synicide03/29/2019

@S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org been wondering that too, and if restricted assets for KYC/AML NEED to be trackable

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org Privacy isn't the main thing ravencoin wants right now. We need to be able to send and trade assets with visibility of amounts and the asset names. Once the main core components are finished, we can start thinking about integration privacy.

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

as i understand it tor could as a protocol be built into ravencoin itself and distroed as a private tor based connector or hardened in such a way not to leak dns or requests that are not 'tor' proxied .. but you could do this already with some modifications to most linux systems (without the need for a ravencoin release)

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

Understood

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@Jeroz With messaging, all asset transactions can contain a metadata field yes.

Jeroz03/29/2019

RVN too?

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

Not RVN at this time, as that already exists with the OP_RETURN functionality of bitcoin

Jeroz03/29/2019

Yeah I was about to say

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

I dream of one day Ravencoin giving users the ability to protect themselves from state level actors looking to oversee transactions on chain.

[Master] Roshii03/29/2019

What's the subject?

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org That would be amazing, however the dividends and voting require a public ledger in order to send

Synicide03/29/2019

@[Master] Roshii large one is if regular and restricted assets should share unique names, and/or if a grace peroid should be allowed for original owners to register restricted assets

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

So we would need to figure out a way to have that info public and keep privacy

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

Agree'd

Synicide03/29/2019

that was my worry, that it HAS to be public for a lot of uses. Privacy would have to be optional

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

ravencoin was built and is being built to support asset trading. Privacy is important but isn't currently the focus of the dev team.

Synicide03/29/2019

sounds good, focus on our roadmap and can research it more in the future

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

Privacy is one of the very lasts subjects brought up in the whitepaper, after all :wink:

Vincent03/29/2019

to bring up an old topic; assets that haven't been reissued, there was talk about lowering the decimal places to reissue; i know not important but if it needed to be in a hard fork; should it be looked at the add to th next?

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@Vincent I have found a way to do this, however it requires the reissuer to own all assets

Synicide03/29/2019

how would you determine the correct values if lowering decimals? rounding?

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

@[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs Yes!

Vincent03/29/2019

correct

nice

Synicide03/29/2019

if they all own, I guess its a non-issue

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

We aren't currently working on that, but I will try and get it into the hard fork release

Vincent03/29/2019

it would be a 1 time option, correct?

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

In that event too, ability to reduce total supply as well if u still own every asset created would also be an excellent Option to have

When 350? (350club)03/29/2019

Is Bruces worry about the security of Ravencoin a curent issue?

Chill03/29/2019

That seems to be the talk of the day

Zaab03/29/2019

Its just honesty

Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)03/29/2019

We know a 51% attack is cheap

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@Vincent Depends on if it meets requirements.

Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)03/29/2019

But reorg depth protection is good

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

Yes Ravencoin currently doesn't have the network security that Bitcoin does, and water is wet

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

more full nodes is the answer to a stronger consensus and therefore a more securer network

Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)03/29/2019

Hmmm checks out

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

:ThinkBlack:

Vincent03/29/2019

right i guess my question is one time at most?

Synicide03/29/2019

It feels like more than just honesty. The last 4 post in a row from the Ravencoin twitter have some type of FUD based around it. Its all you see on the first page when looking at it. Some of that stuff needs to be kept to his personal account

Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)03/29/2019

Probably not a development Question, what Bruce says on his own time. :persevere:

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

@Synicide Bruce don't wanna spend a fortune on restricted assets :yum:

Sevvy (not worried til 500sats)03/29/2019

I don't like it myself either though @Synicide

boatsandhoes03/29/2019

yeah the ravencoin twitter has been a bit..... not good to put it easy

Vincent03/29/2019

this is bruces baby...and fud should be taken lightly imo

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

Bruce can say what he wants :_)

Chill03/29/2019

well, it is the unofficial official Twitter page, so it kind of does matter

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

We have taken measures to make sure ravencoin is safe and to stop 51% attacks

Synicide03/29/2019

I agree on his personal account. When people look up this project on twitter, they dont need a full page of fud

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

its not a very development orientated debate tho in fairness

Vincent03/29/2019

no news will stop a well designed code

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

Many new users are asking about IPFS integration. Is this still being researched?

When 350? (350club)03/29/2019

I only asked as it appeared Bruce was saying there is a current security vulnerability..

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

@[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs what can people do to help secure the ravencoin network into 2019 and in the future?

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

@When 350? (350club) Bruce doesn't code, he wouldn't know

boatsandhoes03/29/2019

sorry, got a late start on this meeting. is kyc stuff on the table for discussion today, or is that at a later meeting?

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

@push | ravenland.org Looks at the PR's, make sure the code being added is well written and secure.

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

sure thing

and run fullnodes right?

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

Run nodes, and mine ravencoin!

haha

hashpower

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

:thumbsup:

boatsandhoes03/29/2019

that part

Pho3nix Monk3y03/29/2019

Looks like its time.

Jeroz03/29/2019

Alright, I have to pick up my son. Thanks everyone!

Pho3nix Monk3y03/29/2019

Thanks all

Rikki RATTOE Sr. SEC Impresantor03/29/2019

Thx!

Vincent03/29/2019

:sunglasses:

push | ravenland.org03/29/2019

cheers again :thumbsup: keep up the good work :rvn_hop:

Chill03/29/2019

thanks for everyone's hard work

Synicide03/29/2019

great talks today, thanks guys

Pho3nix Monk3y03/29/2019

Can have an admin shut it down and move this over to another channel until next time.

[Dev-Happy] Blondfrogs03/29/2019

Thanks for voicing your concerns.

S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org03/29/2019

Thanks everyone

Pho3nix Monk3y03/29/2019

@traysi ★★★★★ can you lock it back?

traysi ★★★★★03/29/2019

The channel is locked now.



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